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Posted By: SecuredParty
Date: Monday, 6 October 2003, 6:29 p.m.

In Response To: AREN'T" WE GULLIBLE'S" EASY TO SWINDLE ??? (Questionnairy)


: Bob H.


Here we go again...

Over the last two years I have been digging into the whole Alice in Wonderland scenario of what is money, and how is our system allowed to function the way it does. The story that the Treasury is trying to get started is a prime example of why we don’t really have a chance getting freedom and responsibility into the hands of the common man ANY more. Through fear and intimidation, along with lies, collusion, fabrications and their knowledge that the general population’s attention is under 60 seconds, has created an atmosphere where people in general will summarily dismiss ANY method of fighting back as being impossible. This is sad but very true.

Ignorance is NOT bliss; it is a chain that binds one to a reduced quality of life and self-imprisonment.

The LAST Secretary of the Treasury was allowing Bills of Exchange to be recognized, accepted, processed, and returned to the original issuer. I had posted an article dealing with this very issue that was dismissed by those who don’t really have even a single clue as to what is going on out there. However, this is something I have grown accustomed to; a combination of cowardice and ignorance that is nothing less than a hang-man’s noose around all of our necks. After all, what is Democracy other than MOB RULE?

I DO NOT promote the technique/approach of using impossibly complicated pay-off documents regardless of their title – because the unseen ones are using this entire venue as a trap. I will make some comments on the post by Questionnairy, and then proceed to give some other relative FACTS that folks can mull over.


TO: Chief Executive Officers of All National Banks; All State Banking Authorities; Chairman, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System; Chairman, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; Conference of State Bank Supervisors; Deputy Comptrollers (districts); Assistant Deputy Comptrollers; District Counsel and All Examining Personnel

          Think for ONE moment about the personnel listed immediately above. Each one of them is a key player(s) in keeping the Matrix of illusion and falsehood alive and well. Each one of them is also up to their necks in responsibility for the unfolding financial wipeout and catastrophe that, in a few years, will be known as mankind’s greatest and most extreme folly EVER attempted. It will be known as the second GREAT DEPRESSION, and it will eliminate the United States from super-power status; and THAT folks is NO ACCIDENT, it is a well orchestrated plan that is as accidental as the launch of the Space Shuttle.

RE: Debt Elimination Schemes using Fictitious or Worthless Bonds, Due Bills and Bills of Exchange

          Calling “debt elimination” a scheme is only partially correct; it is similar in-incorrectness to the phrase “two wrongs do NOT make a right”. The system that is threatened here creates money out of thin air, charges an IMPOSSIBLE to settle interest condition (formerly recognized throughout history as USURY), and then every 50-80 years completes a foreclosure cycle that ruins and bankrupts MILLIONS of families. What these criminals have done this time is so FAR beyond what was set-up prior to the last depression that my words (and patience level) are not suited to fully describe here today. The groups out there that promote ‘techniques’ of using “pay-off documents” are simply victims of infiltration by those who have a vested interest in taking down the world’s financial system – and during the following HUGE disarray and panic and instilling a universal government, outlawing private ownership, and instilling a global prison planet the likes of which mankind has never even contemplated before.

          Using an “account” of ANY kind in some shell-game of who can be the smarter criminal is a gesture in futility. Even when successful techniques are discovered, they are nullified by a few simple press releases and some key figures being tried in a public forum. The major media and those who manipulate and control THEM, are well aware of just how successful this approach really is – in general people believe what they are told by those seemingly in positions of authority. They cannibalize upon the fact that folks have NO INTEREST in knowing how the system that sets the stage for the QUALITY of how they live out their lives even functions. It is too complicated or boring is the reply I have heard the most frequently. This is WHY we live in a slave state that is accelerating down the road of one world government governed by totalitarian police state hell bent on controlling and manipulating your “FREE WILL” from the cradle to the grave.

Please be advised that worthless instruments entitled “Bond for Discharge of Debt,” “Bill of Exchange,” “Due Bill,” “Redemption Certificate,” or other similarly titled documents continue to be presented to financial institutions, mortgage companies, credit card issuers, and retail establishments throughout the United States in an effort to eliminate legitimate debts.

          This is a great line if I EVER heard one; is the epitome of “the pot calling the kettle black.” However, there is some validity to the statement as printed; YOU CAN NOT PAY A DEBT WITH MORE DEBT – YOU CAN ONLY “DISCHARGE” AND OBLIGATION VIA THE USE OF THESE TECHNIQUES - and that is “IF” you have one hell of a lot of knowledge and experience. The average person has no chance whosoever of making this work successfully without causing more grief, trouble, and hardship.

          The statement of “worthless instruments” is a classic usage of propaganda and psychological operation; a story MUST contain at least a shard of truth if the underlying OP is to be successful. FACT: We have no lawful money as established by our founding fathers and provided by the constitution. What we have is a system of credit, created out of thin air, which passes for a system of honesty and integrity in regards to facilitating a decent method of exchanging value. The reality is that the bills of exchange, true bills, Federal Reserve-less Notes, and other similar devices are NOTHING but negotiable DEBT instruments. THEY ARE ALL A JOKE – however, as the system is REAL, is not a funny joke; it is a nightmare that you will not wake up from any time soon.

Many of these schemes are premised on baseless or fraudulent claims against the United States Treasury, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Internal Revenue Service, or other federal or state agencies. (See also OCC Alert 2003-7 and OCC Alert 99-10).

          One of the PRIMARY reasons why these techniques are called “schemes” is because people are trying to get one BANKRUPT account or office/system to “pay” for an obligation. You can NOT pay a debt with a debt, more specifically, you can NOT pay a debt drawn upon a system or account that is already bankrupt! Get it??

Regardless of how such instruments or documents are titled or whether they appear authentic, they are worthless, have no legal validity, and are not payable through the United States Treasury, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Comptroller of the Currency, or any other federal or state agency.

          This “IS” true, as stated several times: “YOU CAN NOT PAY A DEBT WITH MORE DEBT.” Furthermore, you CAN NOT pretend like you are sanctioned by the cabal to participate in their private enslavement system; they must be dealt with in an entirely different way.

The creation and presentment of these fictitious instruments may be a violation of Title 18, Section 514, Fictitious Obligations, or other federal criminal statutes, and any person(s) using such fictitious instruments with the intent to discharge valid debts may be subject to criminal prosecution.

          I could write a book in replying to this one sentence alone! Let me take a moment to give examples of how one plays against ignorance of facts and how reality can be as pliable as silly-putty. Remember this is dealing with the Matrix of lies and deceit, viewing everything with an OPEN MIND is highly recommended.

          Take a look at Title 18, Section 514 at the following link: LANG="en-us"> the part I would like to comment on has been copied from this link, and pasted directly below for review and discussion – NOT – for purposes of advice, just discussion.

              ...snip....” any false or fictitious instrument, document, or other appearing, representing, purporting, or contriving through scheme or artifice, to be an actual security or other financial instrument issued under the authority of the United States, a foreign government, a State or other political subdivision of the United States, or an organization, shall be guilty of a class B felony.

“The creation and presentment of these fictitious instruments may be a violation of Title 18, Section 514.....snip”

          If one creates and presents a document OR instrument, claiming to be from the government or ANY other institution from ANYWHERE there is a violation; this is why the word “MAY” is used prior to violation. For this to be true there would also be premeditated intent to commit fraud via the false representation of the service, as well as the underlying intention involved. However, if one were to use an instrument in concert with making an offer of performance as a reply and condition to the demand of Verifying an alleged obligation – nothing improper has taken place. Again, just my opinion.....

          I have also included a link that came up on a google search on this topic. Be advised that I have NEVER been to this site before, do not endorse/support it in any way, nor the author that is mentioned in the article, namely Barton Albert Buhtz, as I DO NOT promote using any instrument to pay/discharge an alleged obligation that probably did not exist in the first place. Here is the link: LANG="en-us"> in this article, Barton describes his experiences when confronted with this exact language. In short, they had nothing on him, and he is still in the process of collecting damages suffered.

...snip... “using such fictitious instruments with the intent to discharge valid debts may be subject to criminal prosecution.”

          What IS a valid debt? Here is one example. If I went to purchase an automobile from a privately owned/operated car lot, and took possession of an automobile under credit established by the owner and title holder of said automobile (the dealer in this example), and said auto was purchased beforehand in cash of paid in full by the dealer – this debt would be verifiable. If I did not pay the obligation, and the matter was turned over for collection, and I THEN demanded verification, the dealer would simply show the receipt of payment for the vehicle, and an affidavit stating such is true complete and certain.

          In my humble opinion, ONLY after knowing for certain that the former ‘alleged’ obligation is now PROVEN to be legitimate and a bon-fide obligation, should I present a document/instrument for ‘discharge’ would I be in violation (and knowingly so), of 18 Section 514. Does this make sense?

          If a demand for payment is received, and Verification of such demand is made, and NO VERIFICATION occurs – then you have discharge then you have elimination. NOT, NOT, NOT, by ‘paying’ or ‘tendering’ the instrument. You can’t “pay” a debt with a debt.

          The fact that nobody seems to remember the numerous times this has been discussed on this forum board is WHY I no longer contribute like I did. What is the point? Only one person in every 10,000 even cares enough to TRY to do something concrete – not just whine about how corrupt the system is. On top of that, it has been my experience that out of 100,000 people, and the 10 who show some interest, only half of them even bother to do their homework and become educated as to what is going on. The other five just complain that the evil government screwed them – instead of reflecting upon their inadequate preparation. In short, 5 people per 100,000 successful as they might be are hardly making even a dent.

          The utopian fantasy that “fixing” or “getting rid of the banks” is going to do something is even more futile and frivolous than trying to fight them. They (the banks) control the political structure, the political structure controls the armies, and the armies have thermo-nuclear weapons.

          You can’t fight an opponent without knowing their weaknesses, and you can’t fight if you are too afraid to even try, or, if you are waiting for others to succeed first. Again, it is my humble opinion that our founding fathers would be projectile-vomiting if they knew what WE let happen to this fine land; even worse if they knew that there were almost none left who would even try to change it in any meaningful way. They would say we are going to get what we deserve; welcome to hell folks.....


Articles In This Thread

Questionnairy -- Monday, 6 October 2003, 11:33 a.m.
debt elimination scarying off people (views: 319)
economica -- Monday, 6 October 2003, 11:56 a.m.
debt elimination rip-offs? (views: 385)
economica -- Tuesday, 7 October 2003, 10:13 a.m.
debt extermination costs: $2000-$3500 on up (views: 344)
economica -- Wednesday, 8 October 2003, 10:36 a.m.
hobie -- Monday, 6 October 2003, 6:17 p.m.
HERE WE GO AGAIN..... (views: 1017)
SecuredParty -- Monday, 6 October 2003, 6:29 p.m.

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